Hello.If somebody can compare Polaris and Aliseo?What is the disadvantages of the each? Thanks,Eugene.

Hi Eugene. Thanks for your question. I will research this and get back in this forum by this weekend.

Per Olav
gpi2

Thank U, Olaf.

aliseo fly boat

From the aliseo website:


Since 2004 we are using a new engine. It is possibly the best engine ever produced for the ultralight market. Our new Simonini engines models are made with the same passion and knowledge of Ferrari


This is very interesting. I did not hear about Aliseo until this forum. I like the fact that the company is US based, uses the reliable Simonini engines.

I want to look at this more and get back in the forum.

Thanks Eugene for starting this discussion. Perhaps there is someone who has direct experience flying the Aliseo who can shed some light on performance, etc.

Some specs from the Aliseo

HULL: TOTAL WEIGHT: STALL SPEED:
Length out 11' 7" / 355 cm.
Beam out 5' 5" / 172 cm.
Weight: 118 lb. / 54 kg.
Total Chambers 3 437/451 lb. 198/204 kg.
Depending engine type. (WING 19) 23 Knots (WING 16) 26 Knots
FRAME: MAX LOAD: TAKE-OFF SPEED:
Stainless Steel 316 Grade
TIG welded 507 lb. 230 kg. (WING 19) 26 Knots (WING 16) 28 Knots
PROPELLER: LOAD FACTOR: LANDING AIR SPEED:
3 or 6 Blades
Carbon Fiber adjustable pitch + 6G/ -4G (WING 19) 28 Knots (WING 16) 32 Knots
FUEL CAPACITY: GLIDE RATIO: MAX SPEED:
10 Gallons Between 6:1 TO 9:1
(Depending on wing type and load) WING 19) 52 Knots (WING 16) 66 Knots
FUEL CONSUMPTION: WING SURFACE: CEILING:
Rotax 582 3/4 Gallons/hr. Simonini 2 gallons/hr 212 sq.ft. 18 mq. 188 sq.ft. 16 mq. 10,000 ft.
TAKE OFF DISTANCE: LANDING DISTANCE: TBO:
100/200 ft. (Depending on engine type,
wind force and load) 100 ft. Rotax 582 300 hours Simonini 600 hours


Some specs from Polaris
WEIGHT BASIC UNIT: FIB 503 kg 198 - FIB 582 Kg 216
MAX. TAKE OF WEIGHT: FIB 503 Kg 388 FIB 582 Kg 406
STALL SPEED: 48 Km/h
CRUISING SPEED: 65/70 Km/h
MAX. SPEED: 80 Km/h
FUEL CAPACITY: 40 litri
WING SPAN: 11.15 mt
WING SURFACE: 19.6 sqmt
ASPECT RATIO: 6
DOUBLE SURFACE: 35 %
CONFIGURATION: Biplace tandem

The FIB motorized with the Rotax 582 was realized not for more HP, but to reduce drastically the noise emissions. The residue power allows to silence the motor and install a three blade propeller. The FIB 582 is in this way more fit for use in places were noise can be unwelcome (Hotels, resorts etc).

FIB 582 is equipped as follows : Rotax 582 two stroke, two cylinder, twin carburetors and twin ignition, water cooled, mechanical reduction gear box type C or E, silencer on intake filter and on exhaust muffler, triple blade wood propeller with special protection on leading edge, console with radiator temperature instrument and with place for 4 more gauges, wing single surface 19.6sqmt.

FIB 503 is equipped as follows : Rotax 503 two stroke, two cylinder, air cooled, twin ignition, twin or single carburetor, two blade wood propeller with special protection on leading edge, wing single surface 19.6 sqmt.



Per Olav

HI Olav (not sure if your're called Olav or Olaf!!)I was really interested in this thread concerning the Aliseo.
I hadn't come across the Aliseo before,but after checking out their website ,the Aliseo 2 looks like a fantastic FIB.
A couple of questions have arisen though,which I hope you could answer.
1. The Simonini engine sounds excellent.600 hour service intervals(twice as long as the Rotax)Have you ever used one of these engines?How can it produce almost twice the BHP yet use half the amount of gas?
2.What are your thoughts on the new RST strutted wing?It sounds very easy to assemble,but I wondered if there were any disadvantages to it?

The good news for me is that the offices for the Aliseo are based in Miami,which is only 90 minutes away from me.I've already contacted them with a view to seeing the Aliseo in action,so if I get any more information I'll post it here.
I would however like to hear anyone elses opions of this FIB.
Thanks in advance.
Adam

Great to see we have sparked some excitement about Aliseo. Comparing and contrasting these two models interests us since we have been on the look out for a new FIB.

(By the way my first name is Per, I am an American, born and raised in New York City.)

Interesting to see what you find out about the Aliseo since you are right there near Miami.

We will find out some more about this model and get back in touch in this forum.

From what I have found out, there is quite a few differences between the two. While the Fib is stipped from all options, the Alesio II has almost everything included.

The Fib starts from $22.500 and the AlesioII starts at $35.000. So for someone that wants to buy the cheapest possible version the Fib is one to choose.

That said, the Fib has a lot of options that are included on the Alesio, like instruments, electric starter, sliencer, more powerfull engine, faster wing....

With all those options installed, the Fib gets a lot closer to the price of the Alesio II.

It looks like Alesio is developing stuff for their plane a lot faster than Polaris. So I would say that the Alesio II is at least one generation ahead in technology.

Polaris uses a well known fuel hungry Rotax engine that gives the Fib a top speed of 43 knots, and the fuel runs out after 2.5 hours (10.5 gallons).

Alesio II uses a Simonini engine with almost double the HP and is also a bit bigger, but still manages to use half the fuel pr. hour. With a top speed of 75knots and a smaller fuel tank (10 gallons) that delivers up to 5 hours of flight gives it a lot more range.

The rotax engine need a full rebuild after 300 hours, while the simonini can wait 600 hours.

While folding/unfolding the Fib wing is a 2 man job on land, the Alesio II wing can be folded/unfolded in the water by 1 person.

Not shure about the takeoff speed of the Fib but the Alesio does that in 4 sec.

The Fib can be converted to a Amfib version, the Alesio II does not have that option yet, but Alesio say they are waiting for FAA aproval of a new kit that is controlled electrically by the touch of a button.

The Fib can remove the Rib and attach a wheel base instead, and even mount skids. The Rib of the Alesio is not removable, and skids for snow/ice is not yet available.

I have flown the AmFib, and I hope to try the Alesio II in july... Maybe even buy one....

Thanks for the info!. Helpful and informative.

Hi Cirion,

Have been following this website for some time now and am VERY curious to hear your experiences flying the 'Aliseo'. I too am looking inot a FIB and any information regarding the Polaris or any competitors is welcome.
Ps:
What was your impression of flying the AmFib?

Herman

Hi guys,just thought I'd add my 2 cents to this topic!
Straight off the bat,Cirion,are you affiliated with Aliseo or Sankar Holdings(owners of the Aliseo) at all?You are very knowledgeable in this product.
I spoke at length with Francesco,owner of the Aliseo FIB yesterday and asked him a barrage of questions,I had mentioned to him that I had only just found out about the Aliseo from a Norwegian FIB website and it just seems slightly coincidental that a new member is so well informed about this product.Apologies if not,but I'd be interested to know.
Cirion is correct in all his previous comments about the Aliseo and it DOES sound like a much better product than the Polaris.
Francesco was very excited about their new RST (reduced span technology) wing,which is much smaller than that of the Polaris,making easier taxing,handling etc in windy conditions.
The Simonini engine also sounds much superior to the Rotax.
The engine is completely enclosed in fibre glass,making the FIB more streamline,easier to wash down and also more appealing on the eye.
I am hoping to meet up with Francesco in the next 4-5 weeks in Miami and will take plenty of photos for you guys to have a look at.
PS Any ideas on business names for my other thread?

To answer your bat... look at the date I registered... Not the amount of posts.

I have been a very silent user on this forum. I registered here just after a ride on an Norwegian AmFib in Drammen. The pilot told me about this website and I read alot...

The answer is no, I am no affiliated with any of the two companies. My knowledge of the Fib comes from a barrage of questions to a Swedish flight instructor (http://www.flysports.se/) and the test I did in Drammen. My knowledge of the Alesio comes from a barrage of questions to Alesio.

Herman:

After trying the AmFib I wanted to by one straight away. That was fun! But getting the Mircrolight License was another story...

Living in Oslo it's almost impossible to get a license for these things. Nearest airport is a 2 hour drive (rush) so to waste 3 hours after work driving is not fun. Add one hour of preparing the plane and one hour of flight. Add that to the fact that the instructors do not do this for a living, they never have time. And if they have time the weather is to bad... When they finally can give lessons they only give 1hour lessons maximum pr. student.

I was planning to take the license in Sweden or Florida with Peter from www.flysports.se/ but when I have time he does not and I have not gotten to it.

The Fib/AmFib was a solution to my airport problem, and it would be a lot easier to store. But there where a few things stopping me from getting it apart from the license.

The most important one, was the test I did in Drammen. Assembly of the Wing is too difficult/heavy and it was dangerous to put the thing in the water. We struggled a lot to get aboard without falling in the water because of the wind pulling the AmFib around. After landing we had to try 3 times to get to the spot where the car was going to pull i up, also because the wind was turning the craft.

The second most important was the range of the AmFib. The pilot had tried to fly his AmFib until the tank was empty and that gave him less than 2 hours of flight. He was alone but he had 2x20L spare tanks with him.

My girfriend is 145cm tall with 38kg... She would never be able to help me with the Wing, and so I would always be dependent on a friend to fly the ting.

I am mailing with Alesio now to try and squeese in a Sport Pilot License in my vacation in July, not sure yet if they will have time. If I get to try the Alesio II then I'll post my experience.

Cirion,

Thank you for your quick reply. It is a pity that getting your training hours is not an easy straightforward option for you in Norway. I can see how the weather can be an obstacle many times!

I have E-Mailed 'Aliseo' as well regarding more information, training and price etc. and am eagerly awaiting their reply.

You touched upon some issues I was wondering about myself regarding the FIB.
For example that the wing is NOT that easy to assemble, especially by only one person.
I have not seen it being done in person, but on footage I did see it has always been in (nearly) flat calm conditions and never with any wind blowing.

I live in the Caribbean and most of the time the wind is here. Where I plan to store the Flying Dinghy means that I have to be able to fold the wing but leave it in place on the dinghy. Anything that can make (dis)assembling it as simple as possible is very important for me.

The AmFib wouldn't be of much use to me as there is soo much waters around the islands that the place is littered with runways, so to speak. Plus there is ONLY ONE real runway here on the island which is nearly off limits because of the heavy traffic at times.

As for the range; after reading your comment I realized that I have been ignoring that particular nagging doubt in the back of my mind. Less than two hours does not sound like too much time. With the distances here between islands (read 'fuel stations') it does narrow the scope of the flying range considerably. And I'm not even taking into consideration the time spent taxing!

I do not know if you have information on the 'Aliseo' regarding noise.
I understand the engine is more powerfull than the Fib, but it is more quiet?
On the 'Aliseo' website pictures I noticed that they use a '3' or '6-bladed' prop but in their "Technical Data" webpage nothing is being said about noise levels.
The reason I bring up 'noise levels' is because in the mid-late 90's someone tried to start-up a business taking cruise ship tourists for rides in two Fib's here on the island.
They upset the local population quite a bit with their 'noise machines' as they became known; not to mention the local government when they found out the start-up company didn't have any licenses.
Granted, these were the early models from Polaris, but the memory is still here and when I ask the local people if they remember the 'Flying Dinghy", the first thing they talk about is the engine noise.

Another issue I am wondering about regarding the 'Aliseo' is that the engine is covered up. It makes it less easy to see any leaks, anything out of the ordinary or the overall shape of it. Advantage or disadavantage?

Am planning this summer to learn more about the Fib and 'Aliseo' through exchanges like these and to have flighs in both of them. Then I will decide which one to purchase. For I have already decided in my mind I DO want to own a Flying Dinghy.
Now it is a matter of selling my sail boat and making the choice of the two available options of boats.

Herman

Ps:
PrepareToTest FAA Knowledge Tests - Pilot exam test prep
www.preparetotest.com/


PsII:
CookieGuy; looking forward to your photos soon.

Cirion,thanks for the informative reply,my inquiry as to your affiliation with Aliseo was in no way meant to sound aggressive,it was certainly not intended that way and apologies to you if it was.
I merely want to find out as much about all of the FIBs before parting with any money.
Any information I can get from you guys on this forums is deeply appreciated.
Adam.

Had correspondence with Francesco of 'Aliseo'. Following is the reply I received from him. Unfortunately I cannot copy the photos in this message.


"Dear Herman,

We are very glad about your interest in our Aliseo Flying Boat.

The new Aliseo is our high performance flying boat which combines best flying performance with a sophisticated and hi tech design.

Uncompromised performance, independence, safety and convenience - all this amounts to the underlying philosophy of our Aliseo witch connects the unbeatable attraction of high performance flying with the independence of the water and the endless possibilities of flying over remote places.

Aliseo is a small aircraft that can be towed and launched as a boat. Aboard of your yacht Aliseo will let you fly were no other aircraft could, in total safety and with a much lower impact and a fraction of the operating costs than an helicopter.

The new model comes after the first Aliseo version, launched in 1999, which was available with the 64HP Rotax 582 engine and after the 2004 with the new Simonini 102HP. Aliseo had not a single accident and no fatality. Our wing manufacturer has produced more then 18,000 wings without a single structural failure. Aliseo glides down 6 to 1 if an engine failure occurs. On the water, while taxing, a good training will prevent any problem, as capsizing with strong lateral winds.

This new version represents the best combination in performance and design quality possible today. The new advanced composite version goes even further with the same technology used on today's F1. Avional, titanium assembled with carbon fiber and Kevlar. The result is an exceptional light and strong aircraft that not only flies well but looks perfectly in place aboard the most luxurious yacht. A winning combination.

The new engine, similar in design to the Rotax 582, but more advanced, simple and new is capable of the stunning power of 102HP with a 40 reduced gas consumption and a double TBO of 600 hours. It is been produced in the town of Maranello, Italy, a very special place for motors and related engineering, the home town of Ferrari and Maserati. We do provide overhauls for our customers. Also a certified Rotax mechanic is capable of repairing minor or major problems or even overhauls. Parts are available and can be shipped FedEx worldwide.

The new Aliseo comes fully loaded with: 102HP engine with electric starter ,15.5 RST (Reduced Span Technology) strutted folding wing, 3 blades carbon fiber adjustable pitch propeller and intruments.

The only option available is a custom hull/deck color. We are accepting
any color sample. Standard color for the fiberglass version is gel coat white and paint less for the advanced composite version. The hypalon tubes comes in white, blue, gray, yellow, red and green. The wing comes in every color. We can also provide any logo to be placed on the wing.

Aliseo S-LSA retails at $35,000 for the fiberglass version and $ 42,000 for the advanced composite version, plus shipping. Aliseo can be easily delivered to your yacht yard were your yacht has been built and we will assist you and the yacht builder in any possible way.

Training is available worldwide and in our flight schools in Miami, Houston and Nashville area. Typically 15 hours are required. Aliseo II could be purchased as an ultralight or as an S-LSA N-numbered aircraft that requires a Sport Pilot license.

We would be very pleased to welcome you for the first flight of the new Aliseo at our facility in Miami, FL or in Lake Conroe, TX.

Do not hesitate to contact us if there are any more questions. We would be pleased to help you with your best flying boat available today.

* Delivery time is now 90 days.
Sincerely yours,

Francesco La Lumia
Sankara Holdings Group, LLC.
Aliseo Flying Boat
www.flying-boat.com

----------------------
Dear Herman,

We have an old DVD showing Aliseo I but the new Aliseo II DVD is under
production.

An E-brochure is following this message. Please let me know if you cannot
open it correctly and I will send it using another format.

Thank you for been interested in our product.

Kind regards,

Francesco La Lumia
Sankara Holdings Group, LLC.
President/CEO
Aliseo Flying Boat Division
--------------------------------------

Dear Francesco,

Thank you for your quick reply! I look forward to the e-Brochure and would appreciate it if you could notify me when the new 'Aliseo II' DVD becomes available.

Do you have any training facilities in Florida and what would be the cost of that?

Best Regards,
--------------------------------------

Dear Herman,

We did send the E-brocure. Did you get it?
Yes, we do have a training facility in Miami Beach with accomodation, either a room or apartment on the water.
The cost of a Sport Pilot Weight-shift Sea (WSCS) is as follow:
20 Hours of total logged hours. (15 dual, 5 solo) $3,000
Written test $ 90
Two checkrides with two CFI's $700

Anything else you need please let us know at your best convenience.

Kind regards,

Francesco La Lumia
--------------------------------------

Dear Francesco,

Thank you for the e-brochure. I read it with interest.
Would you have any objections of me sharing this information with a 'Flying Boat' Website ( www.gpi2.no/Dragonfly9...ndex.php).

- Could you tell me something about the 'noise-level' that the Aliseo II has?
- And what about accessibility tot he engine to perform daily maintenance? After all, the engine is enclosed so I was wondering how easy it is to have access to the whole engine prior to every flight.
- Also, what would be the advantage of the 6-bladed propeller over the 3-bladed propeller? Plus what would be the price difference?
- I am a US Private Pilot with 250 hours in my logbook, all in Cessna's 172. What sort of training time would I be looking at when learning to fly the 'Aliseo II'?


Best Regards,
--------------------------------------

Dear Herman,

Of course no objections sharing this information on that site that shows the Polaris.

The noise level is same as Rotax 582 at take off, then it is lower at cruise as your cruising at less than a 1,000/ 1,400 RPM than with the Rotax 582. Don't forget you have 40 more HP.
The engine is very accessible as the two lateral air intake comes off.
There is no 6 blades for this kind of power. Ivoprop makes the 3 blades only (Medium, not the ultralight that comes in 3 and 6) The best prop is not even Ivoprop but is the Powerfin 4 or 5 blades.
For you it is very simple, you don't have to fly the required 20 hours for non pilot, you only have 3 hours proficency and only one checkride with a CFI.
You still need to learn how to fly a weight-shift if you don't know. Depending on your ability this will require between 10/15 hours of training.

For anything else please email me at any time.

Regards,

Francesco La Lumia
--------------------------------------


Thank you Francesco,

The information helps me a lot. Could you give me an idea of the shipping costs for a new 'Aliseo II' the Caribbean. To St.Thomas, in the US Virgin Islands to be more specific.

Would like to make a training flight with an 'Aliseo II' sometime in August in Miami. How much time would you need to know beforehand?

Best Regards,
Herman
--------------------------------------


Hi Herman,

I will ask my partner in Nashville to quote a shipping into St. Thomas.
Do you like the training to be done on your boat in Miami in August or do you want to be trained first and than order one?
As far as timing it could be one week if we are lucky with the weather or it can require more. Also it's up to your ability to fly.
We need to make reservation for the training and for the accomodation. Your choices are one double room at our property on the water in Miami beach, from where we will fly, or one very nice apartment on the water in Biscayne bay. In this second case I will fly to your place and we will fly over the bay and base on an small island with a nice beach.
Please let me know.
Kind regards,

Francesco La Lumia
--------------------------------------

Hi Francesco,

I think I like to train first, than order a boat. First I need to get the feel for the boat before making any decisions to buy one.
I understand that one person can easily and quickly unfold the wing while staying in the boat? Is that correct? That would be very important to me in regards to where I plan to store the boat when not in use. I'd like to keep the wing attached to the boat but be folded in so as to take up less space.

I will let you know what my timing is regarding coming to Miami. The whole month of July I'll be delivering a yacht to the Great Lakes. Upon my return in early August would be a good time!

Best Regards,
Herman
--------------------------------------

Hi Herman,
Yes the new RST strutted wing can be open/close by a single person staying inside the boat. Battens needs to come in and out.
Let me know about the schedule as I have more people than I can train. Apparently there are only four CFI's for weight-shift sea in the country but we only train our customers as my time is limited.
Are you a yacht builder? Yachts owners are our principal clients.
Regards,

Francesco
--------------------------------------

Hi Francesco,
The wing sounds like a VERY good option for my situation.
Unfortunately I at this time I do not know what my schedule is for August so I cannot give you a firm date yet.

No, I am not a yacht builder. And even though I do own a yacht, it is not the type nor the size you would be thinking of.
I am looking for a 'Flying Inflatable Dinghy' to use from in land based situation, i.e. 'leave from' and 'return to' a dock. After all, the Vrigin Islands are surrounded by water and thus there are many runways to choose, from depending on the wind direction.

Will 'Aliseo' by present at Oshkosh '07?

Regards,
Herman
--------------------------------------

Hi Herman,

Yes I know the islands. The wind can be tricky inside some protected area but when yuo are in open waters trade winds are just beautiful...that's what Aliseo means in italian...
The new RST wing flies so much better with strong winds and in turboulence is not even comparable to the rest on the market. Still, a windy situation require some attention to details that some people have some other don't.
We are not going to Oshkosh because I was very disappointed with last April Lakeland Sun N Fun. It was so slow! internet took place from shows and magazines.
I have more than 120,000 hits on my website and the new Aliseo II appeals to the yachts owner because finally it doesn't look like an ultralight built in grandpa garage and also it has been certified by the FAA.

Have a nice day and kind regards,

Francesco
=---------------------------------------------------------------=